Why do you fear the abyss?

What do you have to fear? Why be afraid to understand a different point of view? Why fear a perceived dark abyss? If all I am rambling on about is the dark abyss, then it IS necessary for you to learn for salvation, but if what I am saying is truth, then it IS necessary for you to learn for salvation. Sound paradoxical? Welcome to the mess down here that God intended all of us to sort through with HIS help......WITHOUT FEAR! Either way, this information I am presenting to you, is vital to your salvation, either as the "utmost heavens" information, or as the "darkest abyss" information; but making that determination is between you and God to decide.

Joseph Smith Himself taught the way to truth:
https://www.lds.org/new-era/2009/04/gaining-knowledge-of-eternal-truths?lang=eng

• “The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God, than the vain imaginings of the human heart!”

• “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them.”

I want to add that "pass through the veil" does not = death! Get that definition out of your head! If you listen to most "in authority" they will define "passing through the veil" as "death". Why do they do that? Why didn't Joseph teach that? That thought would be ludicrous to him. Listen closely next time you hear "passing through the veil" being pulpitized, do they use proper context? 

It means traveling as Joseph did- through the veil while living! He received a "great while" through the veil to receive concepts of salvation. You MUST do the same if you intend to receive anything Joseph was offering. I know it sounds overwhelming, and it should! We each must workout our salvation with fear and trembling before God. Why is it phrased like that? Are you afraid you aren't saved? Have you experienced that fear and trembling yet? If not, are you on the path to salvation? Was something neatly packaged for you, helping you skip the fear and trembling part? Have you been told by God himself that you are redeemed from the fall? If not, does that cause you to fear and tremble? Or is all well? Are you being taught to be afraid? Are you being taught all is not well? Really think about what it means to attain to salvation. Forget the comely confines of institutionalized teaching, and really ponder what you have attained to down here. Are we here to perform ordinances alone? Is that what we point to for salvation? Do they contain the power of godliness, or just a form of godliness? What is the difference? What does it mean to be conditionally "sealed"? What is the condition? How is it actually sealed? These are just a few questions I have had to work through and am working through.

So again, if you feel what I am going through is the darkest abyss, Joseph himself said it is clearly worth your study. Do we still believe and respond to his words? When was the last time you were told to search out for truth outside the safe confines of comely websites or books? Why do you think that is? Do you think God fears searching? Do you think Joseph did? Do you think prophets of old fit within the neat confines of hierarchical instruction? Were they popular? Did they "fit in"? Why didn't they fear, and how can God know ALL and still know the truth, and still be happy?

God has traveled the high AND low, and so must you to be like Him. How can God trust your testimony sufficiently to give you further light and knowledge if you haven't been proven faithful in confronting head-on the other side of the truth you perceive? He can't in my opinion. He may be just waiting for you to study it out, high and low, light and dark, so as to trust you with more. To trust that nothing can "rattle your cage".

So are you "enduring to the end" properly? How so? In truth? in action? Are you ready for more? Enduring to the end is not describing your mortal probation, it is describing Jacob's ladder that Joseph referenced above. If you are not climbing the ladder of truth and light, are you "enduring" to the end of the ladder with 7 rungs? Which rung are you enduring on? When climbing a ladder, how do you endure to the end of it? Do you get half way up, and stall due to a fear of heights? Do you stop and endure there? Is that enduring? Or maybe you become too afraid to keep climbing because you fear the severity of the fall from greater heights? Do not fear the fall, do not fear the abyss. It will always be there, and will require your study, consideration, AND experience at some point in your progression.

If any of this stirs anything in you, all of the information is at your fingertips. I have recommended a few blogs to the right. I have found either the light or the dark there, but you must decide which it is to you. Is it truth? Is it darkness? Could truth BE darkness? If truth is darkness, what would that mean? Can knowing a lie be truth and darkness? Can knowing darkness be light? Are truth and light always the same? Or are they describing different ideas entirely? "Light AND truth". Study it out. Here is my recommendation if you are interested. It will take much time, attention, pondering, and courage to face your fears. It will be unpleasant, it may be confusing, but it is all necessary to come to hear His voice. This is what I would do: (not saying you should listen to me, but if you claim Joseph is a prophet, you need to heed his advice to labor over truth, light, and darkness.)

1. Start with prayer and fasting
1. Ask to be open to these concepts. Ask if there is anything to it. Never cease praying and pondering throughout the entire journey. Never stop playing "devil's advocate", for both sides. Never stop searching for understanding.
2. Then proceed to the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price
1. Anytime you see the word gentile, think of yourself....because you do belong to a gentile church by definition. Don't think of some wicked group of some other church or religion, think of yourself. Even if you don't agree, it may open your perspective a bit. When you read the D&C don't gloss over the warnings by the Lord. Especially the ones warning about condemnation if the early Saints didn't fulfill what the Lord required. We tend to ignore the warnings of condemnation, and look to ease bruised hearts. Don't do that. Read what the Lord says will happen if the saints were in fact placed under condemnation. Then study the church history to determine if they were receiving the blessings or cursings from the Lord....think Joseph's martyrdom, temple burning to the ground, saints moved out their place etc. Study it out. You should come to your own conclusion. IT MATTERS. Was the Lord offering something in the D&C that was never received? Or was He trifling with them when he had them gather and begin Zion? Was he lying? Did he really mean us? Or is it a record of the Lord speaking to the early saints? Does it matter if He was speaking to them? Are we the same as them? Do we have the same promise He gave to them? What if they didn't match what the Lord had asked? Does that mean we do? Are the dealings with the early saints the same as the dealings with us? If so, where is Zion? If not, where are our instructions? Just things to ponder
3. Read the Lectures on Faith by Joseph Smith
1. Why did they disappear from canonized scripture in 1921? Who made that decision? How were the Lectures originally seen in our scriptures? Where they leading doctrines? Or afterthoughts? Who voted to canonize them, and who voted to remove them? Is that altering scripture? Did Joseph write scripture? If so, is it okay to remove scripture? Why would they be removed? What did they teach? What did they teach about the Godhead? What did they teach about the "holy ghost"? What about the "holy spirit"? Is there a difference? What about the nature of God? How do you ACTUALLY exercise faith in Him? What is the difference between God the Father and the Son, are their bodies the same? What is a body of tabernacle? What is a body of spirit? Does it matter? Were the lectures on faith in larger font originally than the rest of the D&C? Were the lectures originally at the beginning or end of the D&C? Does any of this matter?
4. Learn Denver Snuffer's works:
1. Whether he seems obscure to you now or not, doesn't matter. There will come a point that his message will be well known to all, and you will at some point be confronted with making a determination as to whether he speaks for God or not. You will at some point know the answer. You can however know now, IF you actually study his words. 
2. All published works available on Amazon or kindle. Read the descriptions, because the series of "removing the condemnation" is a print version of his blog. 
3. Read his books, and then start navigation his blog linked on the right. The blog WILL be taken out of context without first laying the foundation set out. Get the information from the horse's mouth. He only says anything either on his blog or in his books. Anything else, is not from him. 
4. Read or listen to his lecture series that is attached to his blog. There are 10 talks all meant to be read as a single talk. Whether or not it is instruction coming from the Lord, is entirely up to you. You NEED to study it out. In the day it is brought forth as either light or darkness to your eye, you will NEED to make that determination. If you have read this much, you are accountable for having received at a minimum your invitation to receive a message being given. You will not necessarily be accountable, nor missing anything if it is not a message from Christ. However if it is, you will be accountable in some way for what you do now; will you reject trying to understand out of fear? That is your choice, it is ALWAYS YOUR choice. God will NEVER interfere with your agency and pursuit of truth. Through the eternities, your progression is up to YOU. YOUR thirst for truth. You will never receive a gift basket of truth. It will never be comfortable or popular. Even the Book of Mormon requires perspective and labor to understand its truth. Your labor for truth will be matched by God hand in hand. The 10 talks given by Denver (speaking for Christ in my opinion) contains instruction for how to begin gathering the seeds of Zion. Specific instructions. You can be assured, that you will either be able to determine if the message is from Christ or not, because Denver's claims are clear. He is either receiving Christ face to face and receiving instruction, or He is not. His claims are clear. I know I have been claiming we must each connect to heaven for own instructions, and that is true enough. I know I have said in past posts we should not be "following" a man, or institution etc. I also said however that we should listen to and follow Christ. Not in an ambiguous way, but find a messenger that quotes teaching and instruction from the Lord. I am still working out my own connection to heaven, but the fruits this message has born in my heart can only come FROM Christ (Read Alma 32). This mighty change of heart to do good continually has changed me from the inside out. There is a difference in following a messenger and receiving a message from the Lord. Study this out! Seek and find, knock and open. You will not be disappointed in this journey. Either way, whether you accept it or not, it will teach and help you understand the nature of godliness in seeking truth and light....thus edifying and enlightening you. 
5. There are several other blogs to the right that have been helpful in sifting through some information. I don't necessarily agree with every concept, doctrine, or teaching. They come from people on this same journey of sifting truth and tradition, light and darkness, good and evil. These other blogs, in turn recommend other blogs as well. I would search and seek all I could.I would learn to sift through the truth, darkness, and light for myself.
6. Try and connect with people in all different stages and experience levels. We are all at a different stage of progression. GO TO CHURCH! If you can still participate at your church, DO IT! If you are LDS, it is a wonderful place to share, meet, serve, and learn. However, do not be afraid to leave the learning and searching from within the church walls. I would continue to participate as Mormon if I could truly be allowed to participate. If you belong to another church, keep serving there if you feel good about that. There is good to be done everywhere. I am not advocating making any changes to what you currently practice. I can not however tell you that finding and searching for the truth will be safe and accepted by other organizations. You search at your own peril, but your peril IS hanging in the balance. "A man can not be saved in ignorance". Ignorance can be ignoring the light, OR the darkness. Remember the quote? Up to you. 
7.  Be willing to take action at the things you learn to be true, whatever that is. If it is to pray about something from church history, do it. If it is to pray about the temple endowment changing, do that. If it is to be baptized, do that. Line upon line, precept upon precept. Make the steps being asked of you by Him through His mind and will. 

I could go on and on. These are the initial steps that will help you understand where I am, and hopefully help you understand more about your role and mission here during the last days. I love you. I do not judge you. I pray you will continually seek His light with a clear conscience and open mind. Worship Him the way YOU see fit, the way YOUR heart dictates; whatever that may be. 

Where the sidewalk ends...

On February 1^st, 2015 at 4:30pm I went to meet with my bishop. It didn’t dawn on me until right before our meeting that I had scheduled this meeting right as the super bowl was kicking off. Anyone who knows me, knows that I have been an avid sports fan throughout my life. The super bowl hadn’t even crossed my mind during all of this. I find it incredibly ironic to my nature, that I had scheduled a meeting to discuss the things of God at the precise time the Superbowl would be kicking off, and I did it completely unawares. Back to the meeting…

I took the pressure of at the beginning and frankly told him I knew he was going to have to take action, and that I would willingly comply with whatever he saw fit. On that note, it was a wonderfully cordial meeting. He is such a wonderful man; so humble, so willing to serve the Lord. I by no means think myself closer or more willing to serve the Lord than any other Latter Day Saint. In many instances I find myself far less appealing to the Lord than those humbly serving in the church, or any other church for that matter. The humble servants that abide at the ward level in the church are truly trying to serve the Lord the best they can, and succeed frequently in my estimation. Members of the church are generous, giving, loving, patient, kind, moderate, diligent, and hard working. If I could maintain my beliefs openly and serve with them, I would. If my beliefs did not offend, I would happily, and be relieved to find myself in their midst. I made it very clear to the bishop that I felt these things about him as well, and about the ward here. These are they who are trying to be the Lord’s sheep. These are they who are giving of their time, attention, and money to a cause that does much good. While I was able to freely speak of the goodness about the members to him, unfortunately I also felt I needed to share my testimony of what I believe to be true. I started at the beginning, and over about an hour, expressed a summary of what is in my heart.

After going into detail, and sharing all openly and freely, he asked a few questions. He agreed I could not pass a temple recommend interview based on the criteria set forth, and also agreed that some action needed to take place. He was a bit perplexed however that there was nothing else “amiss” in my affairs. There was nothing currently requiring any action other than my beliefs, which are deemed as apostasy by the church. After listening to all, the bishop leaned into me and said, “brother Reber, I am happy for you. I know that if you keep pursuing the Lord you will find Him”. He said it was a bit strange for him to say that, but he felt it right to say none the less. He assured me I would always be welcome to return, and I assured him we were brothers, and I would always accept him into my circles with open arms if he ever sees these things in a different light. In fact, even if he doesn’t see anything in a different light, he is more than welcome to worship with us, although it may cost him his membership as well.

He bore testimony to me, I told him I appreciated Him and that I could and do support him. He was grateful for that, but added that if I didn’t believe the leadership of the church was speaking for God anymore, then I couldn’t also believe he was called of God. I agreed that a calling of God doesn’t come from a “chain of command”, but from God, and that if God supported Him, and he was seeking the Lord’s will, that I could in fact support his efforts in acting as an authorized servant. A bishop is one of the most selfless callings in the church; they are unpaid, and give endlessly. I am grateful for my bishop’s Christ like service and attitude. We parted ways, and he asked if he could keep my phone number, I agreed. He asked to have a few days to discuss the matter with the stake president, and would get back to me with the best course of action in a couple of days.

We had made the choice as a family months prior, that we were going to worship the Lord how we felt it most appropriate. Our hearts had been lead by the Lord in a different direction for quite some time. Like Joseph’s last vision, we simply had no interest in putting up a fight, or to contend for the farm. I simply want to go about my way in peace without being critical, and without contending. I still feel that way. I do not want anyone to feel condemned in a future day due to my excommunication from the truth I am receiving, and my willingness to receive it. I want these men at the ward level to have a clean, clear conscience when they come to the realization of the truth I have received. I have no intention of putting up a fight, or causing a commotion to draw any attention to myself. There are many that could condemn me, so why would I ever want to condemn any other. I may disagree, but God gave us all the right to do that, and to worship Him however we see fit. Time will tell the truth.

On February 5^th, the bishop dropped by and brought our letters of resignation, which he felt was the most appropriate course of action. He didn’t have any interest either in causing commotion apparently. He came over with our neighbor (the executive secretary), who was one of 3 men that helped us move into our home. It felt fitting that he came along. He is a very kind man also. We took the letters behind closed doors, knelt down in prayer and promised the Lord that we would spend the rest of our lives in His service regardless of the world around us, and no matter the cost or opposition. We signed the letters and gave them to the bishop. We hugged the Bishop and our neighbor, and they hugged back. They asked if we would be willing to still help with our hands if the opportunity arose, and we immediately agreed. They then departed.

Today, February 14^th we received confirmation that our names had been removed from the records of the church.

I know that this decision may be confusing to family and friends. I am sure many are feeling pain and sorrow at this choice. I know some assume we will not be allowed to be together in the celestial kingdom if we forfeit all the ordinances we have performed within the church. I feel great sorrow that many are disappointed in us for going down this road. I know my in-laws love me, but I also know they must feel in some way that I am to blame for what has become of their daughter. I have so much respect for the lives they have given within the church. I have been a missionary too, and dedicated my whole self to serving the Lord. They have done so as well serving as missionaries and participating in multiple bishoprics. I know how things look and seem at the moment, I have been where you are. I have fought for the church, supported it, given it my all. I know how you must be feeling. I am sorry. I love you. I love the daughter you raised. She is fiercely loyal to the Lord in ways you will someday more fully appreciate. She got that from you. She is the same daughter who always sought the Lord and His approval. I can only assure you that in a future day, we will kneel in unity, in truth, in sheer joy worshiping the same God and Savior. In that day, we will shed tears of joy at His unmatched mercy and works.

To my own parents, I feel sorrow as well being seen now in a different light. It was comfortable and easy to not stand out, not be different, and to be the son in image you worked hard to create. This is not an insult to those teachings, but it is a compliment to them. I am doing all in my power daily to be of service and hear the voice of Christ. I also know there will come a day we will shed tears of joy as we come to a realization of all things. The story is playing out right in front of us. It is as it was in the times of Christ. Individuals were living through scripture that would be revered and studied by millions. We are now living in, and will be a part of the greatest times in the history of the world. We are living in the greatest era of scripture that others will study about throughout eternity. These events will be seen in a much different light in those days.

Although I want to go peacefully, I think it is also important to make a few things clear. We had no choice with our memberships as soon as we didn’t fall in line with the teachings of the church. It was either renounce what we knew to be true, remain silent, force the excommunication process, or resign. The instant my beliefs didn’t line up with the brethren, our options were limited. I will never renounce what I know to be true, I will not hide my beliefs, and I wasn’t willing to condemn another by forcing the excommunication process. So resignation was really the only choice we felt appropriate, unless others had wanted to force the issue.

I want to be clear; we did not WANT to leave the church. Why would we? Why would we want to disappoint family and friends, be perceived to be in error, “embarrass” our families, cut a security net of support, be uncomfortable, and ultimately bring a period of sorrow to many? Why would we want to participate in any of that, unless we simply have a set of beliefs that has entered our core, which we are willing to follow at all cost. It is also because we love YOU! We know that this will be a painful process for many right now, but if it alerts you to study out what we have, or to reconsider our present state as a church and a people, then it is worth it. If we didn’t care about you, we would keep all this to ourselves. We wouldn’t be talking openly, even while knowing we will be seen as misled by many. It is still worth the risk of sharing what we know to be true. If what we believe is true, then destruction of the world and church is eminent. It is near. You will see the signs of the times ever increasing, and will also see the eventual crumbling of the church. I hope I am wrong! I defended the institution as you do! I wish I could believe I am wrong. I wish I could go back to enjoying the super bowl in some days. This isn’t easy, or popular. If I am wrong, I’m sorry; you haven’t lost anything by listening to me. However, if what I am saying is true, then the Lord is waiting to tell YOU how to survive the last days that are coming to a close. I am willing to embarrass myself, to look like a fool, to look misled, to look foolish, to forfeit an “inheritance”. Why would I do that? What do I have to gain? How does this help my self-interest? Frankly, it doesn’t help me.

We aren’t allowed to remain in the church for one simple reason. It isn’t because of our unwillingness to serve, it isn’t because we don’t believe in the book of Mormon, it isn’t because we don’t believe in Joseph Smith, it isn’t that we don’t have a committed marriage and family, it isn’t because we don’t follow the programs of the church, it isn’t because we won’t fast, it isn’t because we won’t give to help support others, it isn’t because of grievous sin, it isn’t because we won’t support other members and our bishop/stake president, it isn’t because we won’t serve in the temple, it isn’t that we will not believe in Jesus Christ or our Father in Heaven, it isn’t that we won’t give our all to the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth, and to the establishment of Zion. It is because we will not pledge an oath to a paid clergy of MEN. I would take a bullet for the cause of Christ, but I will not give my praise, my worship, or my oath to men. Men that have the SAME standing before God as YOU. If you are sorrowing for our family, then sorrow in that thought. The reason my membership is forfeit, and my “salvation lost”, is because I challenge the authority of a group of paid clergy. Slice or dice it any way you want, your sorrow should be directed at them. I am judged apostate not out of the scriptures, but out of a secret instruction manual that neither you nor I have access to without higher “calling”. What do you consider something that is in the dark? Could it be a set of rules and regulations that you’re judged by, but do not have access to?

The church I have devoted my entire life to, has forced us out because we don’t raise our arms to the square and swear an oath-like indication to a group of men claiming to be prophets and apostles. There is great reason for sorrow at that idea. They then judged us out of a book I have never read. It is their right however as the presiding authorities of the church to make such judgments. There are very serious sins you can commit that doesn’t cause excommunication or disfellowship. Gross sin can be acceptable based on your attitude and “potential”. However, the second someone threatens the power of those sitting in authority, they are cast out almost immediately. There is no opportunity for understanding, there is no patience, and there is no place for “apostasy”. I understand the arguments, and although it may sound like there are some bitter feelings, I am not bitter at these ideas. I am not complaining. It is the Church’s right to dictate what I can and can’t believe in order to retain membership of said church. They have every right to do that. It is up to each of us however, to decide if this is the Lord’s way. If you believe it is, then we likely will not have much common ground to build on at the moment, and that is ok. If however you don’t see the Lord in this process, then maybe there is an opportunity for some dialog.

With all that said, I am deeply, deeply grateful for the Church. How could I have a testimony of all I do without it? I have been given wonderful experience and growth through church service. I have realized I am not saying goodbye to the church, nor am I casting it aside. I am serving the same Christ I did as a boy, on my mission, and now. He is simply moving me on a journey by His hand. I do not have to look back with anger, regret or sadness, because the church was part of the Lord’s plan for me. It was a wonderful vehicle while I was allowed to stay and participate. Those that are still members have a wonderful opportunity to study the scriptures, learn in the temple, serve one another, and seek this Jesus that we all long to know. I am grateful for all the experience and knowledge I gained from the Church. I am grateful to have donated my time and money to its cause, I simply believe now is the time for me to continue on as Christ directs me. I have heard His voice through a living prophet and I have received the message. It is a little scary, and we do feel fear at times, but we also feel reassured and great peace in our redeemer. Maybe in a future day, people like me will be openly welcome in the church, in the case it would be great to join again to provide service.

At the moment however, I don’t believe the Lord cares what church we belong to. He is bringing Zion without a top-down mentality, without a group of priests funneling the information. The gathering is now underway and He is calling all who will come from the byways to hear from Him. It is now as it was when He came among the Jews. Study that out. Learn the context of Christ’s day, and how HIS OWN PEOPLE rejected His voice, His message, and His messengers. He came in obscurity under the noses of the presiding authorities, as a thief in the night. He challenged their authority and was ultimately cast out of the synagogues (temples) and executed.  He will come as a thief in the night in our day. His house is a house of order, he follows the same patterns throughout scripture, therein is the house of order.

Today (February 14^th) we received confirmation that our records have been removed. The Lord is our valentine today. In Him we trust. In Him we serve. In Him we hope, as our only hope for salvation and progression throughout eternity. I’m not willing to not follow my heart. I’m not willing to compromise what I know to be true. Because I am not allowed to participate in the church, doesn’t mean I don’t advocate for its members, love them, and love you! I know this possibly creates a bit of awkwardness with all the family events (baptisms, confirmations, blessings, weddings etc.), but please understand we don’t feel it. We will happily come along and support you, your kids, your grandkids, or anyone else we can show love and support to. After all, our goals are equivalent! We want to live as family units for the eternities. We are trying the best we can to achieve that goal and attain eternal life for ourselves and to serve our loved ones. You are doing the same. We can focus on what makes us similar, what we have in common, and discuss when necessary the vehicles that may be different. Don’t feel awkward to invite me to come and witness an even, even though I may not be able to gather in a circle within the church. We are with you in desire and love.